Rochdale In The News Again

Rochdale in the news again, trips to Syria - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32165337

Rochdale has a high proportion of immigrants and 2nd/3rd generation Asian residents. It comes as no surprise that some of these would be romanced into deluding themselves that ISIS is something wonderful. Taking children with them is where the crime comes in as far as I'm concerned. No parent has the right to willfully endanger their child. Children are a gift to be nurtured not chattels to be abused.  Willfully taking children into a war zone is the same as telling them to cross motorways on foot with blindfolds on. It's a crime in anyone's book.

Going by all accounts and it's own publicity, Islamic State is a criminal regime of genocide, rape and extreme brutality. There are historical reasons why it came to existence, but that's what it is.

You are right again Atlas, no surprise that some people from Rochdale want to go there. The numbers of people doing the same from the UK generally is considerable, estimates vary, seems to be young people mainly.

They must be insane, stupid, deluded, or attracted to evil. Send in the psychiatrists.

It couldn't possibly come as a surprise to anyone who knows that religion, like politics, should never be taught to the uninitiated in world affairs (another word for street-wise) until such times as the brain has become sufficiently equipped to deal with such subjects. Had these people to whom you refer been granted the right not to be abused in infancy, primarily by parents, then I would wager that most would not have been 'lulled' into believing the 'tripe' that these fundamentalists lunatics expound and would consequently not have taken to attempt to join them.
You cannot put the genie back into the bottle. IF this country wants to attempt to have its children brought up in a sensible and intelligent manner then it will have to put large resource into rectifying its lamentable integration policies and radicalise its freedoms on the present religious doctrines.

Many would see that as against the individual persons human rights. I would argue that where those rights are manipulated (as in brain washing children into one's own religious/political beliefs) is already an abuse of the children's human rights. If one is not allowed to physically chastise or abuse one's children why would you allow psychological abuse. To me one is at least as bad as the other.

To be lulled into believing the tripe coming from some Imams and across the Internet to the extent that you would take your children into a fanatical bloody war zone on the strength of it leads me to believe that this family has been heavily influenced from the offset by radical religious doctrines. I would be looking at the grandparents/parents here. Not amused -.

You seem to be on the right track with your assessment, but how to apply logic or common sense to the reality of it is a puzzle. As you say, genies and bottles can be difficult to manage.

Begin by integrating the very young. Nursery and primary schools should be totally integrated - by law if necessary. Thereafter senior schools could be either boy/girl segregated or mixed but still integrated in numbers. That way the children have had the chance to mix and socialise. Religious schools should be outlawed. Religion should be taught as a general information subject just the same a Geography and the rest. Care should be taken to ensure the school authorities have the tools to stop 'gangs' and 'bullying' whereby segregation could be the end result.
That's where you begin.
Hue and cry there will be. Trouble there will be. But like all medicines it takes time to work and in the end result is for the good of the patient. It's not rocket science.
Those that don't like it are always free to up sticks and leave for the kind of society they want if they wish. If not - I can see blood on the streets for real in future decades. Which would you prefer?

A sound ideal, integrated education, the snag is organising it. Children would have to be bussed to schools away from where they live to achieve a mix, something of an artificial construct, more natural for children to go to school in their own neighbourhood. Would it mean schools operating a quota system, so many of this race, culture or religion and so many of that to achive a standard mix? As a national project, it would be a huge undertaking, where would welsh language schools come into it, and Irish, an interesting idea, but, not sure whether people would want it or how realistic it is.

IF this had been done from the outset - integration would have been natural - before ghettos sprang up and too many residents became segregated -.
However - given we are where we are then it will cost to move the kids around (although with the present system of parents and cars I cannot see it would be a huge problem). Yes - it would mean an artificial construct - how else could we achieve proper integration at this stage. In two generations things would begin to level out with the people living as integrated instead of the present ghettos. Welsh and Irish already integrate quite well as they don't have the mass immigration situations that are prevalent in England. For example - all schools here have Welsh and English and one's kids can go to whichever is the parents choice.

The kind of social engineering you are advocating tends to be overtaken by events. It is something of a 'turning an oil tanker' maneuver. The planning for such a project would have to have started many years ago, and would have met huge opposition. The UK is too crowded now for turning oil tankers, so yes, I agree it's a good idea, but no, it's impractical on a national level, although something along those lines might be done locally.

Rochdale in the news

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rabbit-tortured-killed-sick-attack-8988326

http://www.heart.co.uk/northwest/news/local/rspca-investigate-rochdale-rabbit-death/#fL5ilYmwGISBU6uR.97

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/435211/Rabbit-impaled-set-fire-Easter-weekend

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/95130/rabbit-found-impaled-on-railings-and-set-on-fire

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rabbit-impaled-railings-burned-death-5468385

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/568961/Sick-thug-impales-rabbit-railing-before-setting-fire

and so it goes on. You might say bad news sells, it does, and Rochdale is firmly embedded in the news media as a bad news story. Rochdale has a lot to do before it can achieve 'Not much worse than anywhere else' status.

That's a perception - not a fact. Perceptions can be changed. Sometimes it takes a long time.
Let's wait and see.

Until fairly recently, all the general public knew about Rochdale was Gracie Fields and that jolly fat politician. Took some years for that perception to change. Can't see the perception of Rochdale as a failed and problematic town changing anytime soon, but as you say, wait and see.

We've waited a little time now, and Rochdale is in the national news for murder and for asylum seekers. Not very positive as yet.

You just wait until the river has been fully exposed and the town centre becomes like Venice. Then there will be somewhere else to throw the rusty motorbikes and shopping trolleys instead of in the canal. Joy oh joy.

Is the council inviting bids for the scrap metal francise yet?

Yes. But they won't come from locally. Unless someone can motivate some of them there immigrants who haven't worked out the benefits and are looking for a cheap cash cow.