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Log inChristmas is coming ... for UKIP?
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past it
Old Regulator
Prudence Tempered
Chill37
mary ann
cyfrifia
Hinch
Atlas
12 posters
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Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Atlas Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:45 am
It's always around this time of year when these forums partially collapse from celebratory palsy.
So - completely irrelevant and POLITICAL (just to ensure the usual 'bone scrappers' join in) - Why are UKIP doing so well in the polls recently. Has the nation been sniffing something illegal?
So - completely irrelevant and POLITICAL (just to ensure the usual 'bone scrappers' join in) - Why are UKIP doing so well in the polls recently. Has the nation been sniffing something illegal?
Atlas- Time Lord
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:06 am
The rise of UKIP is obviously a clear message to the three main parties that they are failing to respond to popular feelings and concern about Europe and immigration.
They are filling a very obvious vacuum. A particularly tough lesson for the Lib Dems but one that was a long time coming.
The Conservatives and Labour could still see them off but only if they wake up and smell the coffee.
They are filling a very obvious vacuum. A particularly tough lesson for the Lib Dems but one that was a long time coming.
The Conservatives and Labour could still see them off but only if they wake up and smell the coffee.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
cyfrifia Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:11 pm
Conservative and Labour made decisions on immigration and arrangements with the EU that the public were never told about or had the chance to vote on. An apparent failure of democracy.
People probably feel voting UKIP is the only practical way the public would get a chance to express an opinion on those things.
People probably feel voting UKIP is the only practical way the public would get a chance to express an opinion on those things.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:34 pm
Am not a big fan of referendums Cyfrifia. As a rule of thumb, I refer to vote at election time and let them get on with the job rather than having to come back to me every couple of year seeking validation via interminable referendums.
I am BROADLY in favour of the EU but don't think we are getting the best out of it but then we spend far too much time pencilling ourselves into the role of Billy No-mates.
As for immigration, we need a clear, transparent and easily understood policy with sustainability being writ large.
Trouble is, we've had politicians lying to us for decades and/or covering up the truth. They've all been up to their necks in it.
UKIP are becoming a more attractve party to a lot of voters; not because they are any better than the others but because they appear to offer something more in line with what the man in the street wants on two key issues.
The Lib Dems have been very severely damaged by their involvement in the coalition and this has added grist to the UKIP mill.
A decade ago they were seen as a minority party of crackpots. Clearly that has altered even though their style and policies have changed very little.
I am BROADLY in favour of the EU but don't think we are getting the best out of it but then we spend far too much time pencilling ourselves into the role of Billy No-mates.
As for immigration, we need a clear, transparent and easily understood policy with sustainability being writ large.
Trouble is, we've had politicians lying to us for decades and/or covering up the truth. They've all been up to their necks in it.
UKIP are becoming a more attractve party to a lot of voters; not because they are any better than the others but because they appear to offer something more in line with what the man in the street wants on two key issues.
The Lib Dems have been very severely damaged by their involvement in the coalition and this has added grist to the UKIP mill.
A decade ago they were seen as a minority party of crackpots. Clearly that has altered even though their style and policies have changed very little.
Last edited by Hinch on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
cyfrifia Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:59 pm
I hadn't thought of referendums, more that the public were told one thing, while something very different was being done. In both cases, immigration and arrangements with the EU, these were not details, but huge issues with massive impact.
The UK, and especially but not just, London, is a very different place now than it was a few years back, mainly due to those two issues. The politics will probably change to reflect that.
The UK, and especially but not just, London, is a very different place now than it was a few years back, mainly due to those two issues. The politics will probably change to reflect that.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:23 pm
One problem is that discussions on immigration quickly become pro versus anti immigrant rants with the John Birchers on one side and the ultra PC brigade forming up on the other.
I am not anti immigrant... most that I have met and worked with I have liked and many have become good friends. However, with regard to immigration (rather than immigrants), we should ALWAYS be able to control it and I am amazed that political parties have never come to terms with this.
One problem I have with debate on the issue is the involvement of those who simply don't like foreigners; particularly those of a different colour. though they virtually always deny their motivation and cover it up with meaningless but revealing mumbo-jumbo such as, "How can I be racist? My daughter used to have a black boyfriend" or "How can I be racist? I've been to Jamaica three times on holiday."
The other side of the coin, of course is he 'come one, come all' idiots who see all immigration as being part of a wonderful, energising experience that brings in a wealth of skills and talent with only positive social consequences.
The recent grooming case in Rochdale shows just how scared they are of delving too deeply into multi-cultural issues. (Sorry Admin, not trying to turn this into another grooming thread.)
I am not anti immigrant... most that I have met and worked with I have liked and many have become good friends. However, with regard to immigration (rather than immigrants), we should ALWAYS be able to control it and I am amazed that political parties have never come to terms with this.
One problem I have with debate on the issue is the involvement of those who simply don't like foreigners; particularly those of a different colour. though they virtually always deny their motivation and cover it up with meaningless but revealing mumbo-jumbo such as, "How can I be racist? My daughter used to have a black boyfriend" or "How can I be racist? I've been to Jamaica three times on holiday."
The other side of the coin, of course is he 'come one, come all' idiots who see all immigration as being part of a wonderful, energising experience that brings in a wealth of skills and talent with only positive social consequences.
The recent grooming case in Rochdale shows just how scared they are of delving too deeply into multi-cultural issues. (Sorry Admin, not trying to turn this into another grooming thread.)
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
mary ann Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:14 pm
The only time I have been able to vote directly about Europe it was about being part of the Common Market. Both Europe and Great Britain have moved on considerably since then. It would be nice to have a direct vote for this issue without it being part of any political agenda at a General Election. 
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Chill37 Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:38 pm
Not much of a surprise that other parties are leap-frogging other main stream parties. Is every one really surprised that Lib Dems are now fourth choice (if this poll is to be belived) considering they sold out on their core grass roots policies for a spot in the power seat.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:19 pm
Unless there is a miracle, I think it inevitable that UKIP will be the third - if not the second party in the country at the next election. The Lib Dems continues to slide into their rightful place as the fag-end of British politics.
I think they need to get rid of Clegg before the next election but that is unlikely to happen. Cable would have been a better choice up to a couple of years ago but he has made some significant gaffes and his age is against him.
Anyone but Simon Hughes... please!
I'm afraid political parties sell out their grass roots with monotonous regularity. You only have to look at the Rochdale Labour Group to see that. The Tories seem to be a bit better at keeping their punters happy but issues like gay marriage have the retired colonels and blue-rinse set spluttering into their Napoleon brandies back in the shires.
Being a Raving Loony means that for the first time in my life, I can vote for whoever I like or indeed, not vote at all if I so choose to, unless I just use my vote to try to keep the worst of the bunch out.
I think they need to get rid of Clegg before the next election but that is unlikely to happen. Cable would have been a better choice up to a couple of years ago but he has made some significant gaffes and his age is against him.
Anyone but Simon Hughes... please!
I'm afraid political parties sell out their grass roots with monotonous regularity. You only have to look at the Rochdale Labour Group to see that. The Tories seem to be a bit better at keeping their punters happy but issues like gay marriage have the retired colonels and blue-rinse set spluttering into their Napoleon brandies back in the shires.
Being a Raving Loony means that for the first time in my life, I can vote for whoever I like or indeed, not vote at all if I so choose to, unless I just use my vote to try to keep the worst of the bunch out.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Guest Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:21 am
Not possible, this forum has only been in existence a few months!Atlas wrote:It's always around this time of year when these forums partially collapse from celebratory palsy.
Guest- Guest
Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Atlas Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:32 am
Unlike you Hinch I have never been a 'member' of any political party - nor have I ever had the inclination to be one. I recognise the 'need' to have the 'group' in order to claw one's way into the public eye in one's bid for power and influence whereby one can persuade everyone else to recognise one's obvious superior intelligence in knowing 'the right way to go'. But - - its that self-aggrandisment which every time, knowing how false such perceptions are, that stay's my hand and leaves me with a feeling of reticence and foreboding. Do you take pills for it? You know. To enable you to 'know better' than the next man? To take the people forward towards Utopia? Just asking really
Atlas- Time Lord
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Atlas Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:34 am
J wrote:Not possible, this forum has only been in existence a few months!Atlas wrote:It's always around this time of year when these forums partially collapse from celebratory palsy.
One used the 'plural' J - as in more than one. Some of us have been posting to each other for many years on others. Get with the programme.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:55 am
Hinch wrote:Being a Raving Loony means that for the first time in my life, I can vote for whoever I like or indeed, not vote at all if I so choose to, unless I just use my vote to try to keep the worst of the bunch out.
Ah yes, the Monster Raving Loony Party - the refuge of the true egocentrics who believe that they are above the fray. A true vanity project in every sense of the word from its founder down to the billy no-mate 'activists' who think that parading in fancy dress and inventing policy based on tenth-rate puns is political engagement.
The truth is that you could have voted for whoever you wanted whenever you wanted, officially joining the Loonies makes not a scrap of difference to that.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:06 pm
By definition, we are all egocentric as ego, in Freudian terms is the basis of self.
Neither is OMRLP my last refuge but my third. Sorry to disappoint but as yet, have worn no silly outfits.
Interested to note that the Lib Dems see us as a threat.
Neither is OMRLP my last refuge but my third. Sorry to disappoint but as yet, have worn no silly outfits.
Interested to note that the Lib Dems see us as a threat.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Hinch wrote:By definition, we are all egocentric as ego, in Freudian terms is the basis of self.
Neither is OMRLP my last refuge but my third. Sorry to disappoint but as yet, have worn no silly outfits.
Interested to note that the Lib Dems see us as a threat.
Anybody who quotes Freud as a 'definition' must a bone fide Loony, so it looks as though you may have found your true political home.
I suspect that mots people would only see the OMRLP as a threat if they were allowed to carry anything sharp.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Old Regulator Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:28 pm
sorry PT who are the mots and can i join?
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Old Regulator wrote:sorry PT who are the mots and can i join?
"Mots" are a people that you really wouldn't want to join. Or it could have been a very lazy typo.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
past it Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:48 pm
Prudence Tempered wrote:Hinch wrote:By definition, we are all egocentric as ego, in Freudian terms is the basis of self.
Neither is OMRLP my last refuge but my third. Sorry to disappoint but as yet, have worn no silly outfits.
Interested to note that the Lib Dems see us as a threat.
Anybody who quotes Freud as a 'definition' must a bone fide Loony, so it looks as though you may have found your true political home.
I suspect that mots people would only see the OMRLP as a threat if they were allowed to carry anything sharp.
Nice to see PT that the Christmas spirit of "Goodwill to all men" is still present.
Last edited by past it on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:04 pm
past it wrote:Nice to see PT that the Christmas spirit of "Goodwill to all men" is still present.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:18 pm
Prudence Tempered wrote:Hinch wrote:By definition, we are all egocentric as ego, in Freudian terms is the basis of self.
Neither is OMRLP my last refuge but my third. Sorry to disappoint but as yet, have worn no silly outfits.
Interested to note that the Lib Dems see us as a threat.
Anybody who quotes Freud as a 'definition' must a bone fide Loony, so it looks as though you may have found your true political home.
I suspect that mots people would only see the OMRLP as a threat if they were allowed to carry anything sharp.
Yes, it stops us stabbing each other in the back with the regularity and ease of the other parties.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:32 pm
Hinch wrote:Yes, it stops us stabbing each other in the back with the regularity and ease of the other parties.
No it doesn't. There have been several major splits and divisions within Loony ranks and much letting of fake blood.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:02 pm
Exactly... and all done with rubber knives to the backing of a usually excellent rock and roll band or a couple of our in-house exotic dancers.
The only division I have seen so far in the party is between those who drink real ale and those who prefer shorts.
The nicest bunch of folk I've met in a long while.
The only division I have seen so far in the party is between those who drink real ale and those who prefer shorts.
The nicest bunch of folk I've met in a long while.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:14 pm
Hinch wrote:Exactly... and all done with rubber knives to the backing of a usually excellent rock and roll band or a couple of our in-house exotic dancers.
The only division I have seen so far in the party is between those who drink real ale and those who prefer shorts.
The nicest bunch of folk I've met in a long while.
Sex and slugs and rock n roll.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Hinch Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:21 pm
No, the slugs defected to the Lib Dems, attracted by the green leather sofas.
You can see the slime trails if you look carefully.
You can see the slime trails if you look carefully.
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Re: Christmas is coming ... for UKIP?
Prudence Tempered Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:27 pm
Hinch wrote: No, the slugs defected to the Lib Dems, attracted by the green leather sofas.
You can see the slime trails if you look carefully.
Translation needed, please.
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