Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Equalliser Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:02 am

Thanks Mojo Hill, for the link and heads up

Guest Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:58 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
Then, we had the dreary, long-awaited council’s own review published: -

24 May 2013 : -

http://www.rochdale.gov.uk/the_council/policies_and_plans/reviews/independent_review_of_cse.aspx

That appeared tedious, lacklustre and undistinguished against the original 'review context' implied last year, so comments about it may be seen, perhaps predictably, as remarkable by their very absence .... I do wonder how many people actually read it!

It took me four painful hours to read a masterpiece in corporate psycho-babble where fence sitting and qualifying took on new heights, even the qualifications were qualified!

Guest Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:03 pm

Summer of Silence

Can anyone translate, help, suggest or answer this: - Are we to take it that the council's own review, published in May, is to be accepted instead of a full Serious Case Review determined by a Safeguarding Board Panel ? Or, is the full SCR still outstanding ? as suggested by .....

The following information included by The Rochdale Borough Safeguarding Children's Board, online...

*************

Rochdale Multi-Agency Child Protection Procedures Launch 16th July 2013

Current Reviews in Rochdale dated July 2013.

•Serious Case Reviews

–Adults A B & C – Sexual Abuse
–Young Persons 1,2,3,4,5,& 6 Child Sexual Exploitation
–Young Person 7 Child Sexual Exploitation
–Child G – Suicide
–Baby F - Death

•Learning Lessons Reviews
–Young Persons Q & R – Recognition of abuse.

All SCR executive summaries are published on www.rbscb.org Have you read any?

***************

As very briefly commented on by the media on Saturday, 10th August 2013, within a feature about children at risk : - ‘Ten more alleged predators from Rochdale are scheduled to go on trial this autumn.’

Surely local Establishments will clear up any outstanding public reports before another trial Shocked

Celebrity cases, internet abuse, delays and 'nationalised' references, etcetera, haven't removed borough concerns and the community benefits of real transparency.

Hinch Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:57 am

I was discussing this very issue over a slice of seed cake and a glass of canary wine with a friend only yesterday. When is a SCR not an SCR?

The answer seems to be, when it's in Rochdale. What a damp squib. A year or two back we had a furore with the council, IPCC, Ofsted, Select Committees, Social Services, Safeguarding Board and Uncle Tom Cobleigh falling over themselves to hold root and branch inquiries promising tough action.

What has actually come out of this (in)action? Precious little as far as my rheumy old eyes can see. Rochdale kids are no safer now than they were two years ago yet we were promised that Rochdale would become "a beacon" for others to follow for our determination to deal with these issues and 'learn lessons.

The circus has rolled up the Big Top and left town. The bird has flown. Elvis has left the building and the town has settled down to its normal navel-gazing preoccupation with the mind numbingly trivial and mundane.

Chill37 Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:24 am

Hinch wrote:

I was discussing this very issue over a slice of seed cake and a glass of canary wine with a friend only yesterday. When is a SCR not an SCR?

The answer seems to be, when it's in Rochdale. What a damp squib. A year or two back we had a furore with the council, IPCC, Ofsted, Select Committees, Social Services, Safeguarding Board and Uncle Tom Cobleigh falling over themselves to hold root and branch inquiries promising tough action.

What has actually come out of this (in)action? Precious little as far as my rheumy old eyes can see. Rochdale kids are no safer now than they were two years ago yet we were promised that Rochdale would become "a beacon" for others to follow for our determination to deal with these issues and 'learn lessons.

The circus has rolled up the Big Top and left town. The bird has flown. Elvis has left the building and the town has settled down to its normal navel-gazing preoccupation with the mind numbingly trivial and mundane.

But remember Hinch- lessons wil be learnt.

Hinch Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:30 am

The main lesson to be learned here is that if you dance up and down on the Town Hall steps making big promises and then deliver precious little, you can then do next to nothing and rely on the short term memory of the fickle public to forget about the matter given. Year or so.

Time is a great healer.

Chill37 Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:56 am

Hinch wrote:The main lesson to be learned here is that if you dance up and down on the Town Hall steps making big promises and then deliver precious little, you can then do next to nothing and rely on the short term memory of the fickle public to forget about the matter given. Year or so.

Time is a great healer.

Spot on. And in the mean time our children continue to be at risk. I am really concerned that one day we will wake up to headlines of another Sex Abuse Gang in Rochdale. Am i missing something, that people know children to be at risk then why are these children not taken into protection. To put it bluntly what does it take for our children to be protected. But then again those that are meant to protect children do jack all

Then everything we have seen read etc will start all over again. I hold all those in charge during this horrific period of time that turned a blind eye etc and got away with it, yes that's right , got away with it, in utter contempt.

cyfrifia Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:34 am

We cannot rely on the authorities with their 'serious case reviews' blah blah blah, and reliance on time slipping away.

It's really down to a change in attitude of the general public, to be aware of the reality of what goes on and do something to disrupt it. To be supportive and protective of potential victims and hostile to obvious predators. See something iffy, tell the police.

Grooming gangs were able to operate unchallenged, to do part of their work in public spaces, with the confidence of being unchallenged due to cultural sensitivities.

If such people know they have been 'rumbled', and they will sense it by the way people look at, behave and react to them, it will help disrupt their activities.

When we consider the 'blind eye' attitude that prevailed for years and allowed grooming to flourish to such an extent, an 'open eyed' attitude is what is needed.

Chill37 Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:52 am

Fully agree with the public. More information and campaigns to highlight grooming 'tactics.' However, the fact remains that the people get arrested brought to justice found guilty, and jailed. But, we still will have the same issues that the people in charge in every department related to child protection don't get challenged.

Hinch Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:54 am

cyfrifia wrote:

We cannot rely on the authorities with their 'serious case reviews' blah blah blah, and reliance on time slipping away.

It's really down to a change in attitude of the general public, to be aware of the reality of what goes on and do something to disrupt it. To be supportive and protective of potential victims and hostile to obvious predators. See something iffy, tell the police.

Very clearly in this case the police WERE told on umpteen occasions but did SFA.

Poppyanna555 Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:23 am

It's a sorry state of affairs and yes, the general public do appear to have forgotten...until the next time which will probably be when the next ten go on trial in the autumn.

I, for one, have not forgotten, especially as the ten that are due to go on trial I suspect might be the ten that were arrested at 2 houses in my area earlier this year. None of us can afford to be complacent, it could be happening in your neighbourhood right under your noses.

cyfrifia Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:29 am

The police are reactive to political and public attitudes. They have been made to feel rather uncomfortable about their attitude towards groomers and their victims in the past.

Repeatedly reporting suspicious behavior to the police may not be a complete answer, but it's a start. The spotlight of public awareness, informed insight into what goes on (and we must now, as a society, be much more aware of what goes on) word of mouth, not using suspect businesses, just giving a general impression that grooming and (often associated) drug dealing is under observation, and will not be tolerated must help.

Meanwhile, yes, call the authorities to account when possible, but they are slippery fish.

Chill37 Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:17 pm

I see another case of child abuse in Rochdale has made national news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23693110

Yet another failing of Rochdale Social Services?

Guest Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:35 pm

Poppyanna555 wrote: It's a sorry state of affairs and yes, the general public do appear to have forgotten...until the next time which will probably be when the next ten go on trial in the autumn.

I, for one, have not forgotten, especially as the ten that are due to go on trial I suspect might be the ten that were arrested at 2 houses in my area earlier this year. None of us can afford to be complacent, it could be happening in your neighbourhood right under your noses

Poppyanna: That could just be a "numbers" coincidence from a scant media report of early this year.

Sadly years seem to have blurred. There could be cases outstanding from at least early LAST year , like Ref. : -

12 May 2012 BBC News

Rochdale grooming: More child sex arrests

Nine men have been arrested in a second sexual grooming inquiry in Rochdale.

The men aged between 24 and 38 have been questioned on suspicion of sexual activity with a child, police said - allegations were from a girl who told officers she was sexually abused over a six-year period from the age of 12.

Up-date some 15 months later ? Silence.

Jeanie Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:51 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
Poppyanna555 wrote: It's a sorry state of affairs and yes, the general public do appear to have forgotten...until the next time which will probably be when the next ten go on trial in the autumn.

I, for one, have not forgotten, especially as the ten that are due to go on trial I suspect might be the ten that were arrested at 2 houses in my area earlier this year. None of us can afford to be complacent, it could be happening in your neighbourhood right under your noses
Poppyanna: That could just be a "numbers" coincidence from a scant media report of early this year.

Sadly years seem to have blurred. There could be cases outstanding from at least early LAST year , like Ref. : -

12 May 2012 BBC News

Rochdale grooming: More child sex arrests

Nine men have been arrested in a second sexual grooming inquiry in Rochdale.

The men aged between 24 and 38 have been questioned on suspicion of sexual activity with a child, police said - allegations were from a girl who told officers she was sexually abused over a six-year period from the age of 12.

Up-date some 15 months later ? Silence.

The first figure of arrests at that time was 39, (30 were let loose) far too much silence on this Mad

Guest Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:04 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Extract
Meanwhile, yes, call the authorities to account when possible, but they are slippery fish.

Call them to account? I cant even get an answer to a bog basic question

Fact. media confirmation of Sept 2012: - Serious case review into Rochdale sex grooming case

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/serious-case-review-into-rochdale-sex-695115

: - ‘ The serious case review (SCR) comes on top of other investigations which are already taking place. The RSCB's own learning event is due to be published at the end of the month,
while Rochdale council's internal investigation should report back in October '

Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale. - Page 10 Flying_pigs

Numerous delays in the council’s own review took place right up until May 2013, but cancellation of a full, in-depth SCR via Rochdale Safeguarding Children Board, based round several victims' cases, as initially/formally advised to the public via the press, wasn’t declared, or was it?

Guest Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:38 am

cyfrifia wrote: We cannot rely on the authorities with their 'serious case reviews' blah blah blah, and reliance on time slipping away.

It's really down to a change in attitude of the general public, to be aware of the reality of what goes on and do something to disrupt it. To be supportive and protective of potential victims and hostile to obvious predators

See something iffy, tell the police. - - - - -

It seems you're asking us to show more community confidence in the police and criminal justice system.

The following appears to suggest public relations need change, for starters : -

Police in Greater Manchester to be given lessons in being polite in bid to improve feedback from victims

More than 6,500 officers and civilian staff at GMP will undergo the ‘politeness’ training over the next two years.

An analyst had commented: “We knew from research in Australia and the US that police officers could change attitudes, by making sure the public felt fairly treated and involved in decisions.”

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-greater-manchester-given-lessons-5694272

Hinch Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:53 am

"Oi joined the perlice 'cos oi loik meeting people."

cyfrifia Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:21 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
It seems you're asking us to show more community confidence in the police and criminal justice system.

If and when people have fair reason to suspect 'grooming' of the type we have become aware of may be going on, what are the alternatives? To do and say nothing is not an option. To go in alone and ask questions would be dangerous. To go in mob handed, problematic. So, yes, telling the police, and other people, of your suspicions does seem a practical compromise, even though confidence may be low.

A social climate of awareness and watching, keeping an eye on things, knowing what has gone on in the past, being aware of grooming methods, giving groomers the impression they are being observed and suspected might be the best help to disrupt them.

Within the police there are probably individuals who have been nauseated by the situation as revealed in court cases, who do care about children, even disruptive and difficult ones, and those people may be able to use reports from the public that are recorded, to build a pattern.

Authorities who have promised reform of methods and publishing of reports risk further loss of confidence amongst that section of the public that hoped for correct and corrective procedures to be properly followed.

We can expect there are many involved in the grooming business at various levels who have not appeared in court or the newspapers, either gone abroad or just kept quiet for a while.

We should be aware of grooming methods: Often spearheaded in public places with the bait of 'dolly boys'; good looking lads about 17 yrs, fashionable clothes, haircuts and style, presenting themselves as potential 'cool' boyfriends, handing on their catches to older men once they are 'hooked'.

There does now seem to be a general feeling that 'grooming' is intolerable, that we have not seen the end of it yet, and that conversation about it, information and awareness of it may be useful to limit it.

We can only do what we can do, but, we should do that.

Hinch Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:28 pm

The purpose of reporting crime is first and foremost to get help and stop the behaviour that is being complained about NOT to help the Dibble collate statistical data. This is of secondary importance.

There may well be individual officers who have great sympathy for the victim but when the police are found wanting or criticised, they close ranks. Happens all the time. Esprit de Corps. Kick one, they all limp.

Those who don't subscribe to this have no future in the service.

Grooming is still alive and well, as is the trafficking of girls for prostitution, youngsters being sent home for 'a holiday' and then having to endure forced arranged marriages to first cousins, FGM etc. The police know all about it I'm sure.

Guest Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:38 pm

cyfrifia wrote:

Authorities who have promised reform of methods and publishing of reports risk further loss of confidence amongst that section of the public that hoped for correct and corrective procedures to be properly followed.

Cyfri: How very true/perceptive, but I’d go that bit further and suggest that the risk of further confidence loss has moved on to actual further loss. There’s an overwhelming need for Authorities to keep their word and be professionally committed to meet their own Action pledges about publishing reports.

The re-cycled mantras of ‘Lessons Learnt’ and ‘sorries’ just does not cut it

Hinch wrote:
There may well be individual officers who have great sympathy for the victim, but when the police are found wanting or criticised, they close ranks. Happens all the time. Esprit de Corps. Kick one, they all limp. Those who don't subscribe to this have no future in the service.

: - Thus, very rarely, someone like Ms Oliver leaves, ‘in dismay ’

Rochdale grooming detective with Greater Manchester police quits over treatment of witnesses. (Yet another near-forgotten expose?

* http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21925205

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rochdale-grooming-detective-greater-manchester-2039230

What a weary state of affairs and shortage of ‘open,’ permanent campaigners, at least since Sarah Rowbothom, from Rochdale Crisis Intervention Team, told the Home Affairs Select Committee last year
that the team had been reporting sexual grooming cases to police and social services since 2004.

Rolling Eyes

anyone read 'The Biggest Gang in Britain' yet?

Hinch Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:32 am

From today's Northern Voices: http://northernvoicesmag.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/our-kids-at-risk-again-in-rochdale.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+northernvoices+(Northern+Voices)

Hinch Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:47 pm

And of course, these 9-10 men have been swaggering around on bail for months.

I really am not reassured by any of the 'lessons learned' measures put in place thus far and the disappearance of a comprehensive SCR is an affront to us all.

The whole thing is an embarrassing shambles.

This is not the end of child-grooming in Rochdale but I hope I'm wrong.

teamplayer2 Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:34 pm

Also a climate of fear is going on around Rochdale. Until this is dealt with this town will never get back to normal. All will be bad press again for the town. The police, council and the community of Rochdale need to deal with this.

Poppyanna555 Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:47 pm

And the ten men due to appear in court in autumn may well not be the men from my area (as MJH pointed out in a previous post), but in fact another group of alleged groomers so.....the men from my area are potentially another ten swaggering around the town, out on bail, it's crazy!

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