Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

A similar case now in Oxford. Same racial overtones, same actions, same delay. This one comes to trial (in London) in January. Perhaps the racial element might eventually be taken on board?

Very well said! The act of 'not talking about it' has resulted in an escalation of these terrible crimes and we have only reached the tip of the iceberg. We now need to be more open and pro-active in stamping out this culture of abuse which unfortunately, has been allowed to go unchecked for far too long.

johnb wrote:A similar case now in Oxford. Same racial overtones, same actions, same delay. This one comes to trial (in London) in January. Perhaps the racial element might eventually be taken on board?

So long as Keith Vaz continues the chair the powerful Home Affairs Select Committee, I doubt it johnb.

His own stance has been loudly consistent since May and a brow-beating of different views has already been a running element.



Meanwhile, back in Rochdale, Pastor Rigg's comments set an unpleasant picture:
]http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/73794/political-correctness-blamed-for-sex-grooming-scandal

If that evil bas**rd believes that about this country I trust he will be going back to Pakistan when he is let out of prison. Hopefully though he will die before then.

I know SOME do, and they are completely wrong and delusional. Muslims will NEVER be the majority in this country and they are still only a small minority in Rochdale. The majority do not want an Islamic state, many left, or their parents etc left Pakistan because they wanted a better life which included getting away from a Islamic state. So don't worry Charly you are not going to be forced into learning the Koran.

I have Muslim friends who do not share the beliefs of that monster, and think that women should be treated as equals. You have some Christians who think women are second class citizens.

The best hope in this country is that more and more people now class themselves as no religion, after all it's some religious teachings that say women are 2nd class citizens.

UP THE DALE wrote: So don't worry Charly you are not going to be forced into learning the Koran.

I'm not worried about it UTD, bit old to learn anything now, the information goes in one ear and out t'other.

Me too. Mind you I am not really a fan of fairy tales etc, that's why I don't read religious books.

How about being forced to wear a burka?

Not a cat in hells chance!

You might re-think when you see the gas bill. A nice cosy burkha might be just the thing for the winter.

No burkah for you then Charly.

After our little detour, back to the heart of the matter.

hinch wrote:Do lessons really get learned? Have all the other high-profile inquiries ever really changed anything? Maybe I'm just being cynical but these things do tend to crop up again and again; albeit not on the scale of the Rochdale case.

I was in Staffordshire over the weekend talking to my Muslim friend who is a consultant oral surgeon. She is a highly educated woman from the middle class and says that it really does stem from how white girls are often viewed within muslim society as somehow being 'less than' Muslim women and morally inferior.

How will an SCR change these perceptions? It is all very well changing the way in which these cases are reported and dealt with by the police, education, healthcare professionals, council and social services but if my friend is correct, it goes much deeper than that and she said that it is very difficult to speak about these issues, let alone raise them within many Muslim communities.

Now I am not a Muslim so I don't know how well-informed my friend is but we did hear some very similar opinions and experiences being voiced by younger Muslim men and women on the old RO forums.

By all means, let the SCR take its course and toss a few well-rolled severed heads in the direction of the baying crowd but it seems to me, that to really get down to the roots of the issue, we really do need to be prepared to go much, much deeper into this. Simply regarding it as a 'sytems failure' and changing the training and paperwork and perhaps a few alterations to the educational curriculum will not get to the heart of the matter. . . .

And more.

It may well be, a Serious Case Review will not go deeply into the roots of the matter, that the issues are still too hot to handle for any formal or political process that is likely to happen. We can at least draw our own conclusions and think our own thoughts, that is still legal isn't it?

As for treating this as a 'systems failure', yes that does seem superficial, but if we are going to live in a society with the problems we are suffering, at the very least, society is going to need some rather more robust 'systems' in order to cope.

Agreed Hinch but should never have got this far in the first place if the authorities acted sooner.

hinch wrote:You mean that if the council had acted sooner, it would have prevented these Muslim 'men' regarding these girls as pure trash?

Have to admit, I never thought of that; a system so good it can reach deep into communities and address 'thought-crime'.

If you are waiting for a sy7stem that comes up with something that makes all mulim men regard western-women as equal and therefore beyond exploitation and violent sexual attack then you are shooting at the moon.

But, unless you accept and recognise this basic truth, there is a very likely chance of it happening again.

I thing the whole way in which we operate between and within communities needs to be looked at and some VERY serious restructuring to take place.

Remember, all the powers that be on all sides falling over each other to deny any racial/cultural link? That sort of knee-jerk crap needs to go. Fifty years after mass immigration began and community relations are so lacking in confidence3 and maturity that Commandment Number One still seems to be:- Thou shalt refuse to see the wood for the trees in the Great Spirit of community cohesion.

By all means change the training, the time shedules, the paperwork, the reporting channels and all the other stuff. OK, we know that there will also be a change of a job title or two and a scraping sound as the deck chairs are moved around on the Titanic. But, would any of this have prevented what happened here?

No, it would have helped them to recognise it earlier but what REALLY needs to be done is a fundamental way of changing the thinking and the way in which women are regarded within and between communities.

Spot on! Well said.

What strikes me as sad about this is that it reminds me of the Hillsborough investigation. The way our legal system works is that when a group of concerned family, relatives and freinds are prepared to follow through a legal process for many years and through many obstacles, they may eventually get justice.

What about the family freinds and relatives of the girls that were abused in these grooming cases, without them, what pressure can there be behind an investigation?

Sparks and Hinch I was going on about when it was first reported by one of the victims back to about about 2006 to the Police and Social Services, if I got the year correct.

Good points you made and no system is fool proof. What I refer to the very first time it was reported by the victim and nothing done then.

If it was anything to do with being seen to be PC or not being seen to be racist that is the biggest scandal. The criminals being allowed to carry on when it was first reported. The other scandal for the people in charge who it was reported not acting on the accusations when first reported.

The national media are ripping into Rochdale, although other towns have similar problems.

From the Guardian 27 September

Drugging, trafficking and rape, the worst happened in Rochdale all right. The dreadful twist on the typical story of a harrowing crime is that this one was allowed to keep on happening. If the authorities had lacked any clue about the grooming of vulnerable girls, which eventually led to nine convictions this year, that would be one thing. But as the report from the council's safeguarding children board effectively concedes, the warnings were there. As far back as 2007, an official working group identified 50 youngsters at risk of exploitation. Yet such was the guilty men's sense of impunity that, when victims lashed out, causing damage to a taxi and a takeaway, they twice reported them to the police. So what on Earth went wrong?

The change of policy that is needed, is simply to change from allowing asian men to rape white girls, to preventing asian men from raping white girls. Once that is established, systems and everything else will fall into place rather better.

The previous policy of designating grooming and rape as a 'lifestyle of choice' in the interests of community cohesion has failed and proved counter-productive.

A new policy of deliberately preventing and avoiding this from happening would be much better for Rochdale and for everyone concerned. Things don't have to be everlastingly cr@p in Rochdale, positive changes can be made without even a lot of expense, it's just a matter of having the will to do it.

Rochdale should be quite clear about this from now on, and move from being seen as a most disgusting, degenerate and failed town, to being recognised as a leader in the field of solving this and other problems, having the guts to take the steps needed to create a better society for the future.

I think we also need to stop using the blanket term "Asian" when referring to these cases.

What term do you suggest Sparky?