Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Spartacus Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:03 pm

As far as I am aware Charly the Rochdale offenders were mainly Pakistani. One may have been Afghan?

If we are going to address this issue we need to narrow it down and get to the heart of the problem.

cyfrifia Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:31 pm

It was, eight Pakistanis and one Afghani in the latest Rochdale case. It's difficult to come up with the right descriptive word for such a combination. Military and media have had the same problem, and now use the term Af-Pak to describe people of the Afghanistan/Pakistan region, but, it may not be useful for us to use war on terror terminology in this context, so perhaps the term 'asian' will have to do, until someone can improve on it.

Shaza Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:08 pm

hinch wrote:If you are waiting for a system that comes up with something that makes all Muslim men regard western-women as equal and therefore beyond exploitation and violent sexual attack then you are shooting at the moon.

But, unless you accept and recognise this basic truth, there is a very likely chance of it happening again.

I think the whole way in which we operate between and within communities needs to be looked at and some VERY serious restructuring to take place.

Remember, all the powers that be on all sides falling over each other to deny any racial/cultural link? That sort of knee-jerk crap needs to go.

We have enough Mr Khans and a BME select guard are in appointments. There was much information on the old forum about how people were dealing. Cllr Ali Cabinet Member for Strengthening Communities was Cabinet Member for Community Cohesion and Housing until 2008. His report to full July Rochdale Council says ‘It is intended that the promotion of our excellent community cohesion record is ongoing’. A new assistants post for their principal community cohesion officer was agreed.

We knew already the way the wind was going. During the trial and after police and council sent out E-mails to people in our communities for reissuring them. These always said Key Message by GMP· This has been an extremely complex investigation which demonstrates the skills and experience of officers and staff within Greater Manchester Police.

Some persons tried to blame the child victims for grooming and rape and it reads like social service workers are next. The offenders are not talked about any more in my community. We were told not to by community men who said it is over now some men are in prison. From Sept 14 all talk has been about should Muslims demonstrate in Oldham about the internet film, before RCM made its PR announcement. http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/73757/rochdale-council-of-mosques-strongly-condemns-the-offensive-film

This mosque council who nobody in the real community bothers with have got a greatly better script writer than they had before. You already know we and Rochdale police have special community cohesion football and matches. http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/4/sport/73204/cricket-uniting-communitieskblue]] .

[size=18]The trial judge, Anne Cryer MP, Trevor Phillips, Mohammed Shafiq, Tim Lawton, Baroness Warsi and many others said cultural factors and race were factors for inquiries. Their comments clashed with Labour MP Keith Vaz, local authority and police who say these was not issues in the child sex grooming ring.

A minority of men mainly of South Asian or Pakistani ethnicity has been in use to describe gang perpetraters

Shaza Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:21 pm

The trial judge, Anne Cryer MP, Trevor Phillips, Mohammed Shafiq, Tim Lawton, Baroness Warsi and many other bodys said cultural factors and race were factors for inquiries. Their comments clashed with Labour MP Keith Vaz, local authority and police who say these was not issues in the child sex grooming ring.

A minority of men mainly of South Asian or Pakistani ethnicity has been used to describe gang perpetraters.

cyfrifia Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:51 pm

Good to hear from you Shaza. If the Islamic community, Mosques and Imams want to be 'on board' in sorting out this grooming problem, that's all to the good. If they choose to ignore it, solutions will have to be found anyway. It can't go on like this again. Speaking of religious communities, it would be good to hear more from the other ones, Christian and Jewish, Sikh and Hindu, whatever else, the town belongs to them all, and they all belong to the town.

I see from your link, that a spokesman for the Rochdale Council of Mosques says Rochdale Muslims are "enraged" by the film. (The film whatever it's called that Muslims are enraged about.)

I've had a look at it some of it on U tube, it's a low budget, amateurish film, with comedy false beards from a pantomime, and poor dubbing. It's difficult to understand anyone being enraged by it, never mind loads of people crowding the streets, shouting and screaming and killing people about it, as is going on in some countries,

We have to accept that the Muslim view of what matters and what doesn't, is very very different to European culture. I've seen adverts on telly that are more annoying.

Spartacus Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:09 pm

http://menmedia.co.uk/heywoodadvertiser/news/s/1590474_head-of-rochdale-childrens-services-resigns-after-damning-sex-grooming-scandal-report

The report details the case of one victim, who has been given the pseudonym Suzie to protect her identity.

In early 2009 after falling pregnant as a result of the abuse she suffered, she told the Crisis Intervention Team (CIT), a specialist sexual health and support service, that she was being exploited.

Social services took no action because, aged 16, she was 'considered to be making her own choices'.

She also confessed her ordeal to police, but withdrew her statement because 'she was frightened of the repercussions and did not have confidence in agencies' ability to protect her'.

While police did try to act against those who abused Suzie and others in 2009, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) failed to charge the men on the grounds of cost and because they said Suzie was an unreliable witness.

In 2010 Suzie again appealed to police for help. It was then they launched Operation Span, but it wasn't until 2011 that action was properly taken by authorities to help her, three years after the abuse first began.

The report concluded: “There is no doubt that Suzie was suffering significant harm from 2008 onwards. Indeed Suzie told several professionals, on several occasions, that she was being sexually abused and exploited by a number of men.

“The nature of harm and of the 'relationship' between Suzie and the offences was understood by the CIT and Early Break service, however their referrals were generally not acted upon by children's social services.

“Social work practitioners and managers wholly over estimated the extent to which Suzie could legally or psychologically consent to the sexual violence being perpetrated against her.”

It added that if safeguarding processes been followed: “The harm that Suzie was suffering could have been mitigated and her risk of suffering harm in the future could have been reduced.”

The report is the first of three looking into how the sex gang was allowed to get away with grooming girls for so long.

An internal review by Rochdale council is due to report back next month while an in-depth Serious Case Review was announced earlier this month.

BRAVO CIT and Early Break! Let's hope the staff working in these services receive the acknowledgement, respect and appreciation they deserve for doing their job well!

Chill37 Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:14 pm

Is this the first of many?

cyfrifia Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:15 pm

Quote: "The time is now right for him to move on to a new challenge."

Wonder what that will be.

Charly Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:50 pm

Doesn't bear thinking about Mad

Guest Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:54 pm

Chill37 wrote:Is this the first of many?

There's a big link here to the Not On My Watch topic. The top tier of Local Authority officers who are responsible have already jumped ship; gold-plated pensions have been mentioned.

Recent Early Retirement-Voluntary Redundancies:

Roger Ellis, Chief Executive

Andy Zuntz, Executive Director

Cheryl Eastwood, Executive Director.

UTD has already commented, somewhere, that the health staff in the Crisis Intervention Team, who also passed on concerns to the police about many girls, were "disbanded" from that CIT service

It took the police eleven months to present 2008 information about a victim to the Crown Prosecution Service in 2009. It's a shambles and, as someone else has pointed out, the usual 'Partnerships' byword has gone strangely quiet.

Hinch Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:47 pm

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74096/private-care-company-calls-in-the-lawyers-over-council-leaders-comments

The latest.

Jeanie Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:05 pm

hinch wrote:http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74096/private-care-company-calls-in-the-lawyers-over-council-leaders-comments

The latest.

And rightfully so !

Charly Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:10 pm

He better have a good solicitor methinks.
All the news reports seemed to focus on girls in care when in actual fact only one of the victims in the case that went to court was in care

Guest Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:11 pm

hinch wrote:http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74096/private-care-company-calls-in-the-lawyers-over-council-leaders-comments

The latest.

The council leader was seen by many to shamelessly hammer the diversion of all borough care homes and nationally advertise his own view that Rochdale was not a safe place for them, which was picked up as a 'hoofing' big Red Herring by Simon Danczuk MP

Colin Lambert seemed to further compound this by making it the main focus of his own evidence to the Home Affairs Select Committee in June. He introduced himself to Keith Vaz, the Chair, as a Councillor, but made the point that he was employed full time by the MP Jim Dobbin. The full transcripts are available in House of Commons open papers, HC182-i, which make for disturbing reading, for anyone with the patience to peruse them. Meadows Care may reference these, no doubt. Mr Lambert's interpretations in his evidence to the Committee of a few other borough events at that time left some readers dumbfounded by incredulity.

The twists now emerging appear weird: MP Simon Danczuk now calls for the former Chief Executive, Roger Ellis, to appear before the next Home Affairs Committee review. The RMB responsible Executive was a Hydra that included Andy Zunt and Cheryl Eastwood. They are mentioned in many local despatches during the years in question. The interface between children's services, community cohesion, the Rochdale Safer Communities Partnership and madatory Safeguarding partners was blatantly evident and ..... sensitive?

A sacrificial resignation or 'token chop' of some remaining RMBC personnel seems almost trite. The Local Strategic Partnership each had at least one senior figurehead involved in Safeguarding children, with the Top Tiers and middle management in several public services being the people who are liable and accountable.

No-one has answered my previous question about Rochdale Councillors' Corporate Parents' Forum. Did it exist, what strategic input did it have and has it now been abandoned under recent re-organisations?

The council is well down the road of it's own path of self-review. Perhaps it needs this independent private company to stimulate relevant challenge.

Charly Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:57 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:

No-one has answered my previous question about Rochdale Councillors' Corporate Parents' Forum. Did it exist, what strategic input did it have and has it now been abandoned under recent re-organisations?

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I tried searching For Rochdale Childrens Services Corporate Parents, nothing to be found for Rochdale but found quite a few other councils, I wonder where Rochdale's has gone (if it ever existed)

Shaza Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:20 pm

Rochdale grooming lessons 'not learnt' BBC News

A woman who raised concerns about a 13-year-old girl's safety has accused Rochdale social workers of failing to learn lessons over sex grooming.

Rochdale Council was criticised for missing opportunities to help victims of a child sex ring after nine of the ringleaders were jailed in May.

An independent review found staff who failed to act had said the girls were making "lifestyle choices".

The woman behind the latest claims said the same phrase was used again.

Council chief executive Jim Taylor said he was concerned by the claims and asked for the woman to contact the council in confidence so the matter could be fully investigated.

The woman, who asked to remain anonymous but said she was involved in caring for children, claimed she raised concerns with social workers about the girl regularly going missing at the end of 2011 and early 2012.

Comments not 'appropriate'

She said: "The girl was constantly going missing and the reaction to that was that she was making informed choices.

"The issue I had is how can a child of that age make informed choices? I don't think those comments were appropriate."

"She did get drunk quite often and what she was doing when she was drunk, that's the question," she added.

"So every bullet point you have in grooming, exploitation, she ticked every one of those boxes."

After the damning review by the Rochdale Safeguarding Children Board (RSCB), the British Association of Social Workers warned that social workers and police officers must realise that victims of grooming gangs were not consenting to sex, although the way they were groomed may give the impression it was consensual.

One victim made a complaint in 2008, which was not taken seriously and the abuse continued, the RSCB report found.

The council said it had implemented more staff training since the scandal came to light.

Mr Taylor added: "An independent review is currently under way to evaluate whether improved procedures are effective enough."

I am thinking myself who would this woman have faith in to contact in council or police in confidence?

teamplayer2 Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:25 pm

Shaza.

When the people in charge said they made life style choices. It was their way of saying "I cannot be bothered and it is too much trouble for me to bother about". Makes me think how these Social Workers and others involved ever get the jobs. It is obvious they did not care about the poor victims.

TP.

Spartacus Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:42 pm

I am thinking myself who would this woman have faith in to contact in council or police in confidence? [/quote]

I am thinking exactly the same thing. Who indeed.

Poppyanna555 Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:07 am

Fifteen years ago I had the misfortune of sitting in a 'then' family members home whose son had been placed into the care system. Whilst there, he turned up at the house with his Social Worker/Carer? The lad showed his mother the ciggies he had on his person and she voiced her disapproval to his carer who replied, something along the lines of "we can't stop him, we're not allowed to, it's his choice"....the lad was 12 years of age at the time, I was shocked.

cyfrifia Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:37 pm

The culture of using poor guidelines in social care as excuses for not doing what is needed, when the real reason is lack of care, lack of resources, lack of organisation, lack of effective management, lack of commitment, politically correct office politics,lack of confidence in the system, is deeply embedded, and despite all the outcry, what has been done to change that culture is a minimal, token, under-funded, ineffective, media based, cover up which is down to lack of insight, lack of competence and lack of leadership.

The grooming will lull for a while, as you might expect, but as for tackling the underlying problems that left children so vulnerable, much, much more needs doing, so much that, can anyone face the task? Smile

Our 'authorities' are not up to it, they have no real authority, our 'professionals' are not up to it, as has been proved by events so far.

Unless the public kick off big time and long term, at a guess, all will slide back and start to happen again, maybe with a different slant and different tactics but a similar result.

Best of luck to those who work in this field, and are busting a gut to provide real care and to get real improvements. I will bet it isn't easy.

Guest Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:33 pm

Child sex abuse continuing in Rochdale, health worker tells Commons inquiry into sex grooming

Live link http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1593106_child-sex-abuse-continuing-in-rochdale-health-worker-tells-commons-inquiry-into-sex-grooming

cyfrifia Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:28 pm

Hansard 17 Oct 2012 Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab):

"Girl A in the Rochdale case described to me how on one occasion she tried smashing up a vending machine in one of the takeaways in which she had been repeatedly raped. The perpetrators of the rape had no hesitation in phoning the police, who attended and arrested the girl. It was during police questioning about smashing up the vending machine that she explained that she had been sexually exploited. It is the episode that people might remember; the police officer interviewing her yawned throughout the interview, as though he was not interested in what he was being told. It was at that stage that the girl’s parents first learnt about the abuse that she had received. That was in 2008, and we now know that no prosecutions, either of the girl or the perpetrators, took place and that the abuse continued for another two years.

From that incident and others, we also know that the perpetrators of those horrific crimes were emboldened to continue the abuse. As, I am sure, as they saw it, they were being left alone to continue raping girls. Indeed, if the girls stepped out of line and committed crimes against them, the perpetrators felt emboldened enough to report it to the police. I was told of an incident in which one of the victims smashed up a taxi of a perpetrator, and she, too, was arrested.

I press the Minister to review the cases in which the victims were prosecuted, and possibly revoke some of the action taken against them. I shall conclude with an important point: in such cases, children must always be treated as victims, never as willing participants, and certainly never as criminals."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm121017/halltext/121017h0002.htm#12101754000151

Just a detail perhaps, but if wrongs are to be put right, victims must have police cautions and prosecutions reversed from their records.

Spartacus Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:02 pm

I agree, cyfrifia. Their records should be wiped clean where appropriate.

Simon Danzcuk is not my MP but I am impressed by the way he has spoken out on this matter and is pursuing it vigorously.

I have always held Jim Dobbin, my MP, in the highest regard but must say I am disappointed with the seemingly lack of action on his behalf with regard to this matter. He is far too quiet for my liking.

Guest Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:27 pm

Rochdale’s Safeguarding Children Board chairwoman resigns

Media comments: ‘The head of Rochdale council's safeguarding board has quit following a borough grooming scandal.

Board chair Lynne Jones has stepped down after less than three years, describing the last 12 months as 'challenging'.’

Following the May trial of nine men who were jailed, the Board delivered a 'damning' report.. slamming the police and council for repeatedly failing the victims.

Mrs Jones, who joined as chair of the board in 2010, is the latest in a string of high-profile figures to leave their jobs in the wake of the outrage: since May, Cheryl Eastwood, the council's director of children's services, and Steve Garner, head of its targeted services department, have both left the council. Chief executive Roger Ellis took early retirement shortly before the court case, Executive Director Andy Zuntz shortly after the court case.

Thanking colleagues for their support, Mrs Jones said safeguarding in Rochdale is now improving. She said: "We have made significant strides, however we have had a very challenging year and there is still much to do. I believe that the time is right to bring in a new chair to take the board forward."

Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk said: "Rochdale people have been assured by the council that people will be held to account for institutional failings that saw victims of the Rochdale grooming scandal ignored. But this is yet another resignation before the council’s own report has come out.
…. people will be wondering if there will be any managers left to be held to account when the Council eventually get round to delivering their verdict."

Rochdale Safeguarding Board is made up of senior figures from a range of bodies, including the police, probation service, council and NHS.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/75800/rochdales-safeguarding-children-board-chairwoman-resigns

The council's own pending report is not independent !

A pathetic saga comes to mind.

cyfrifia Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:51 am

Mojo Hill wrote:
Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk said: "Rochdale people have been assured by the council that people will be held to account for institutional failings ..............

Perhaps Mr. Danczuk was a bit over optimistic if he said that people would be held to account. Depends what 'held to account' means. During the course of a public scandal and investigation, it's quite normal for those involved to melt away by resigning, taking early retirement, developing amnesia or seeking other opportunities.

If people stubbornly stayed in post, would that be any better?

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