Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

UP THE DALE Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:54 pm

So what are you saying, for child to raped by their uncle is not as bad as being raped by someone who is in a gang? Or a victim feels worse having been raped by an Asian grooming gang than a white one. Idiot thing to say. It's nothing to do with me being "political correct" , which is in your imagination, it's to do with your bigotry.

I did not move the discussion. I was answering YOUR points that YOU made to MY post, it's not my fault you cannot deal with facts. What happened to you ignoring me, like you promised in the other tread?

Just to let you know, I have worked with people who help rape victims, and they make it clear that, rape cannot be measured in what is worse for the victim, and if anything when the victim of a family member or someone close to the family, it can be even more bewildering for the victim.

It might be worse for you, depending on who has committed the vile act, but that is down to your prejudices.

cyfrifia Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:20 pm

This is an argument you are going to win, Up the Dale, not because you are right, but because you are better at being nasty than I am, and it's a skill I do not wish to develop.

UP THE DALE Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:35 pm

Nothing to do with me being nasty, you just keep coming out with stuff which I reply to, and you don't like the answers. It was ok you having a go at me for being "politically correct" but you don't like it when I have ago back. You expect to be able to say something without reply. This is a message board, if you give your opinion, expect someone else to answer you. You think you can come out with unproven, wrong statements and not be answered, just not going to happen.

Now why don't you just ignore me!

cyfrifia Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:03 pm

Handbags at dawn? Rolling Eyes

Guest Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:46 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Handbags at dawn?

Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

cyfrifia Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:02 am

In the early hours of Tuesday 18 December 2012, officers from the Serious Sexual Offences Unit coordinated the arrest of a variety of men in connection with separate an unconnected reports of rape.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/76284/arrests-on-suspicion-of-rape

Guest Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:23 pm

Charly wrote: All named;

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1591927_nine-men-from-rochdale-charged-after-child-sex-grooming-probe.

And a comment from Yahoo news
All the men have been bailed and will appear before Bury Magistrates Court on various dates between November and December.

Lynne Jones, Chair of Rochdale Borough Safeguarding Children Board, said: "The board has been working very hard to ensure vulnerable children and young people are protected from all forms of abuse.

"Together with Rochdale Borough Council, Greater Manchester Police, the Crown Prosecution Service, the NHS and our other members we have clear strategies in place to combat child sexual exploitation, which sadly is happening in most towns and cities."

Arrested in May.

9th November 2012 ----------- These 9 men appeared before Bury Magistrates court

30th November 2012 ---------- The men, from Rochdale, Greater Manchester, were due to appear at Manchester Minshull Street Crown Court

14th February 2013 ----------- The provisional date set for a plea and management hearing at Manchester Minshull Street Crown Court.

Rochdale child sex abuse charges: Nine more men in court
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20272205 : -

There has been no news reporting of any development in this 'other' case since early November of last year. ---------- Does anyone have an idea as to why not?

Silence is not helping with confidence about the new protections we're told have been introduced, or in the transparency, or integrity, of information being shared with the community.

I was not successful in attaching the article’s photos !

cyfrifia Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:55 am

Is the attention span of the general public too short to follow up 'old news'?

The same news items, food contamination, hospital scandals, violent crime, celebrity murders, another wave of immigrants, another financial scandal, whatever, go around in a cycle, and nothing ever seems to be followed up to any great extent. "Lessons are learned" and it's eventually forgotten until next time it makes headlines. Seems that way anyway.

Poppyanna555 Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:39 pm

And make headlines once more they will....or will they? Evil or Very Mad

Hinch Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:17 pm

When there is news on this issue it will be followed up. When there isn't, we won't.

Simples.

cyfrifia Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:37 pm

A rather disgusted and upset public would very much like to hear news of effective things being done to change and tackle the arrangements and attitudes that allowed grooming gangs to operate with relative impunity for years, until it became such a public scandal.

However, as Hinch says, if no such news is available, then it isn't.

Dalelad Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:54 pm

I think that you'll find that this story has been overtaken by a far more serious event. Prince & Princess Privilege have been photographed in their beach wear whilst on another luxury holiday. Now THAT is something worth reporting.

Hinch Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:06 pm

Let's try a few local headlines:-

Rochdale: No snow expected today.

Town Hall still standing.

Asian man seen visiting mosque.

Council say, "Lessons will be learned."

Hollingworth Lake still quite wet.

Number 17 bus seen in Castleton.

Litter spotted in Deeplish.

Admin Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:24 am

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/77878/arrests-on-suspicion-of-sexual-offences

Poppyanna555 Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:16 am

Rumour has it that ten men were arrested at 2 houses on Samson Street and Beswick Royds Street suspected of sexual offences against children, so on and on it goes....Rochdale will soon be in the news again for all the wrong reasons.

Guest Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:39 am

Poppyanna555 wrote:Rumour has it that ten men were arrested at 2 houses on Samson Street and Beswick Royds Street suspected of sexual offences against children, so on and on it goes....Rochdale will soon be in the news again for all the wrong reasons.

The acute brevity of the police statement, as seen on RO, is only likely to raise rumours further Shocked

.

Some consistency in the information released about suspects' arrested might help to reassure communities that transparency and actions are taking place. ?

Hinch Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:29 pm

A reporter's job in Rochdale is not an easy one.

Between RMBC refusing to talk to those organisations they don't favour and GMP who seem to have gone in for minimalism, the job of reportage is akin to trying to find a pair of matching socks in the dark.

All this is counter-productive of course. In the absence of truth, rumour flourishes... As does Facebook and Twitter.

In their desire to avoid tension and mistrust, they are inadvertently promoting it. If there are safeguarding issues and these suspects are on bail, surely local residents need to be given a bit more information?

If there's nothing to fear then there's nothing to hide.

"To Protect & Serve."

Poppyanna555 Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:00 pm

One of those properties raided at approximately 4:00am on Tuesday morning is just one street away from me.

These men have been bailed and are now, presumably, walking around my neighbourhood, not good! Mad

cyfrifia Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Poppyanna555 wrote:These men have been bailed and are now, presumably, walking around my neighbourhood, not good!

No, not so good, and what will be the 'follow up'?

About thirty people were arrested in Bradford area last November/ December by police investigating child sex grooming.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10192832.Thirty_arrested_in_child_sex_grooming_inquiry/

All were released on bail with no charges made against them.

It appears the policy is to disrupt child sex grooming gangs rather than take them to court. The expense, time, resources and difficulty of getting convictions is well known.

Such disruption tactics are an improvement on the previous 'blind eye' policy, but it's still not very good if such offenders remain on the loose.

Guest Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:42 pm

That Rochdale "motto" again: -

Extracts from MEN press release 25th February 2013

Rochdale council chief executive says ‘Lessons have been learned from child sex abuse scandal’ Jim Taylor will address a region-wide conference, revealing the lessons the authority has learned.

The chief executive of Rochdale council is to address a leading region-wide conference on sex abuse – and reveal how the authority has learned lessons from the town’s child grooming scandal. ( Exclamation

) Jim Taylor will be joined by Det Chief Supt Mary Doyle of Greater Manchester Police and Crown Prosecution Service chiefs at the St Mary’s Sexual Assault Referral Centre seminar on child sexual exploitation.

The seminar will form part of St Mary’s two-day conference at Manchester Town Hall this Thursday and Friday. Key speakers will include director of public prosecutions Keir Starmer, chief crown prosecutor for the north west, Nazir Afzal and Stockport MP Ann Coffey.

The conference – ‘There’s no place like home: Sexual violence in the context of domestic abuse’ – will debate the issues surrounding sexual violence in the home.

Professionals from the NHS, local government and the police will attend the event and will be able to contribute to panel discussions, workshops and Masterclasses on how to spot the signs of sexual abuse in children.

Dr Catherine White, clinical director for St Mary’s Sexual Assault Referral Centre, said: “It is well documented that the vast majority of those who experience rape or sexual assault are attacked by someone they know.

“This conference will look in detail at the impact of sexual violence by a partner and ex-partner and help those people working in this field to look at how they can improve their services.”

Some very outstanding LOCAL issues remain, such as -

*Rochdale is still waiting for the council's further-delayed review on the sexual grooming and rape of children by male groups.
*Rochdale is still waiting for an Independent Serious Case Review
* What happened to the 'other' 9 men arrested, bailed, re-bailed, and .... ?
* Were 10 more men arrested 'on suspicion of' this month, and ....? , or do we just let the community rumours inform (or misinform) us?

etcetera.

Jeanie Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:54 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:That Rochdale "motto" again: -

Extracts from MEN press release 25th February 2013

Rochdale council chief executive says ‘Lessons have been learned from child sex abuse scandal’ Jim Taylor will address a region-wide conference, revealing the lessons the authority has learned.

The chief executive of Rochdale council is to address a leading region-wide conference on sex abuse – and reveal how the authority has learned lessons from the town’s child grooming scandal. ( ) Jim Taylor will be joined by Det Chief Supt Mary Doyle of Greater Manchester Police and Crown Prosecution Service chiefs at the St Mary’s Sexual Assault Referral Centre seminar on child sexual exploitation.

The seminar will form part of St Mary’s two-day conference at Manchester Town Hall this Thursday and Friday. Key speakers will include director of public prosecutions Keir Starmer, chief crown prosecutor for the north west, Nazir Afzal and Stockport MP Ann Coffey.

The conference – ‘There’s no place like home: Sexual violence in the context of domestic abuse’ – will debate the issues surrounding sexual violence in the home.

Professionals from the NHS, local government and the police will attend the event and will be able to contribute to panel discussions, workshops and Masterclasses on how to spot the signs of sexual abuse in children.

Dr Catherine White, clinical director for St Mary’s Sexual Assault Referral Centre, said: “It is well documented that the vast majority of those who experience rape or sexual assault are attacked by someone they know.

“This conference will look in detail at the impact of sexual violence by a partner and ex-partner and help those people working in this field to look at how they can improve their services.”

Some very outstanding LOCAL issues remain, such as -

*Rochdale is still waiting for the council's further-delayed review on the sexual grooming and rape of children by male groups.
*Rochdale is still waiting for an Independent Serious Case Review
* What happened to the 'other' 9 men arrested, bailed, re-bailed, and .... ?
* Were 10 more men arrested 'on suspicion of' this month, and ....? , or do we just let the community rumours inform (or misinform) us?

etcetera.

I bet none of these questions even if ALLOWED to be asked will be answered !

Hinch Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:46 am

As MJH is aware, very fierce reporting restrictions are imposed on cases involving children.

However, the delay in the outcome of the Inquiries is worrying and there seems to be no cogent explanation for this.

We can accept no assurances that 'lessons will be learned ' until we know what happened and what plans are in place to prevent future occurrences. Particularly so as arrests appear to have continued.

Guest Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:57 am

I didn't make it clear that, sadly, the 1-hour session on day 1 of the 2-day conference, in which "Learning the Lessons" from Rochdale feature, is noted as CLOSED to the media and for delegates only - unlike other parts of the programme.

* 17.30-18.30

Seminar: (NB Conference Delegates only - session closed to the media)
Child Sexual Exploitation; Learning the lessons from Rochdale
Mary Doyle, Detective Chief Superintendent, GMP, John Dilworth Head of the Complex Casework Unit CPS, Jim Taylor, CEO of Rochdale MBC

St Mary’s Annual Conference 2013, ref * Programme

http://www.stmaryscentre.org/professional-area/st-marys-training-and-events/

Hinch Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:06 am

Disgraceful. No doubt RMBC's 'preferred media partners' will get a full briefing.

cyfrifia Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:48 pm

There are still cases coming to court, but, do we think the situation has changed particularly for the sort of asian grooming gangs that have been in the news. Are those type of gangs intimidated by the publicity and arrests, by the feeling they are being watched, by greater awareness in their own community, or, are they still doing it the same? My impression (maybe wrong) is that they have 'gone to ground', to some extent, and may not be operating on quite the scale or with the impunity they used to.

Sex grooming: 9 more charged