Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Guest Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:00 pm

No he won't be attending - the quote from the Council at the foot of this article was added on Sunday following an email from them:

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74897/former-service-director-of-targeted-services-too-ill-to-face-mps

Guest Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:49 pm

Sex Grooming Lessons not learned

BBC News - Rochdale child sex abuse still happening: Health worker

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20220556

"Well done" to Sarah Rowbothom, of the Crisis Intervention Team, who told the Home Affairs Select Committee that to their knowledge the abuse had started in 2004 and not 2007.

The regional news cover showed she was nervous, but Sarah held it together

She confirmed she had made 103 referrals of "incredibly vulnerable" cases to the police and social services between 2005 and 2011.

I wasn't at all surprised at Roger Ellis's statements. Did anyone seriously expect him to fall on his own sword? I've previously noted the named Exec deputy, or designated Exec Directors, who 'acted' as the well-remunerated lead(s in the RMB top team that was. This must be common knowledge in the echelons of local Establishment partnerships.

Maybe it's time someone also called in Stephen Harper, as the influential RMBC Director of Human Resources, architect of Executive Director contracts and voluntary redundancy-early retirement deals ... before his own is packaged.

Charly Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:54 pm

Bailed until February, so by the time this case gets to crown court, if it ever does, how many of these guys will still be around?

Guest Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:59 pm

Round 3 ?

Sex grooming: Two more former council officers to appear before Select Committee

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/75358/sex-grooming-two-more-former-council-officers-to-appear-before-select-committee

Charly Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Does anyone know if these latest interviews be televised?

Guest Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:16 pm

Charly wrote:Does anyone know if these latest interviews be televised?

Charly: They'll perhaps show short extracts on the News.

The Select Committee is very transparent however and a full record-transcript of 'uncorrected' evidence given (and questions) from these sessions are placed on the Internet, as standard procedure of parliamentary records.

Unfortunately a lot of folk don't seem to read them, otherwise I think we would all have seen more probing queries and comments online.

I don't understand the rationale behind omitting to question at least one other Executive Director, maybe intended for other-future sessions?

Charly Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Mojo, if you know where to find these transcripts would you send me a link please?

Jeanie Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:46 pm

Charly wrote:Mojo, if you know where to find these transcripts would you send me a link please?

And me please ?

Guest Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:03 pm

Yes Ma'am, will do. Smile

Detective Superintendent Ian Critchley, head of public protection at Lancashire Constabulary, has been called for tomorrow’s session. This is the stated schedule:

The Home Affairs Committee will be taking evidence from the Heads of Public Protection Units at Lancashire Constabulary and Greater Manchester Police to examine the differing methods which forces use to tackle Child Sexual Exploitation.

This will then be followed by a panel of two former senior officers of Rochdale Metropolitan Borough Council. Following the evidence session with the current and former Chief Executive of Rochdale Council, the Home Affairs Committee will be taking evidence on the breakdown in communication between frontline and senior staff at the Council.

Tuesday 20 November 2012 Grimond Room, Portcullis House

Witnesses
2.45 pm
Detective Superintendent Ian Critchley, Lancashire Constabulary
Detective Chief Superintendent Mary Doyle, Greater Manchester Police
3.15 pm
Cheryl Eastwood, former Director of Children’s Services, Rochdale Metropolitan Borough Council
Steve Garner, former Director of Targeted Children’s Services, Rochdale Metropolitan Borough Council

Committee Chair Rt Hon Keith Vaz MP said:

“Roger Ellis, the former Chief Executive of Rochdale Council, told the Committee last week that he knew nothing about the sexual exploitation of children in Rochdale—some of whom were looked after by the local authority—until charges were brought.

We will be asking those responsible for children’s services at the time about who knew what, and when and why no action was taken for so many years."

The above suggests just half an hour to examine the different methods used by Lancashire Police and Greater Manchester Police Exclamation

cyfrifia Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:22 pm

The Parliament website takes a bit of getting used to, but there's a lot there, if you have the time to wade through it.

House of Commons Debate 13th June 2012
Simon Danczuk, quote:

"The health workers told me that although one of the girls—their client—had presented with multiple sexually transmitted infections, the council would not intervene or escalate her care. They also told me that one 13-year-old girl had asked to go into secure care to escape from the abuse. Social services responded that she was too disruptive, and that it would cost too much. Let us be clear: those health professionals were working with children who were pressing for greater intervention, more action and more intensive care, yet none of that was forthcoming. The abuse continued for years. Vulnerable girls got pregnant by their abusers, and lives continued to be ruined. That is the reality.

One of the chief constable’s defences for what happened—or did not happen—in 2008 was that he was concerned about these vulnerable girls going through the court system, as he thought it would be a harrowing experience. The problem with that argument is, first, that the girls were probably not consulted on whether they wanted to go through a court case; and, secondly, and more importantly, that they continued to be abused because they did not go to court. Which is worse: going through a court case or continuing to be abused?"

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm120613/debtext/120613-0003.htm#12061361000002

The chief constable's argument might make sense if the police knew who the child abuse gangs were, and were about to have them put away in prison for other serious offences, but, for some reason, that doesn't seem to have been happening.

We can expect careful, advised answers from Cheryl Eastwood, who, "was legally responsible for the council’s children’s services" and Steve Garner, who has had time to take advice. (If his health has been up to it).
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1594048_two-more-council-bosses-and-a-detective-face-grooming-quiz-over-rochdale-sex-gang

Guest Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:41 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
We can expect careful, advised answers from Cheryl Eastwood, who, "was legally responsible for the council’s children’s services" and Steve Garner, who has had time to take advice. (If his health has been up to it).

I didn't hear those careful, advised answers Exclamation

Hinch wrote:http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/75399/child-sex-grooming-roger-ellis-evidence-contradicted-by-former-executive-director

I'm a bit confused as to why Cheryl Eastwood and Steve Garner were called, given the timeframes the committee has already been made aware of. I expected Terry Piggott and Steve Titcombe as next 'in the frame.'

This explains some of my (mis)understanding: Executive Director leaves Council - Rochdale Online 02.09.2009 http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news/29194/executive-director-leaves-council

‘Terry Piggott, 59, has been at the council for nine years, firstly as Director of Education and for the last five years as Executive Director of Children’s Services.

The Council says it has plans to appoint a new Director of Children’s Services to start early next year. Until then, the current Head of Children’s Social Care, Steve Titcombe will take on the role.

Mr Titcombe was due to retire in the autumn but is postponing his retirement until the end of the year, to cover the interim period before a successor for Mr Piggott is appointed.’

Any more nominations ?

Charly Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:10 pm

I dont know if it was just my reception on the pc but the sound was awful, very difficult to understand what was being said.
What I did notice was Cheryl Eastwoods squirming gesticulations.
The woman (I thought) was very evasive and the hand waving seemed to be over the top.
She was very reluctant to answer when asked if she had actually met any of the victims, after a lot of going round the houses she had to admit she hadn't met any of them.
I didnt hear much of Steve Garners evidence as I had to do the school run and when I tried to watch the broadcast 'from the start' there was an error so it wasnt possible.

cyfrifia Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:17 pm

Charly wrote:
The woman (I thought) was very evasive and the hand waving seemed to be over the top.

They teach them handwaving and ummming on counselling courses, so it goes with the job. Cheryl Eastwood spoke convincingly, again, part of the job, and skillfully combined frankness with evasion, all in a days work. A committee have to be very hard headed to cut through all that to the nitty gritty, and I thought Mr. Vaz, the chair combined a tone of direct 'no nonsense' inquiry with what was actually a rather gentle and ineffective line of questioning today. We have to bear in mind that spin and evasion, umming, ahhing, hand waving, serious tones of voice and the like are everyday currency in Parliamentary work.

Charly Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:05 am

cyfrifia wrote: They teach them handwaving and ummming on counselling courses,

That must have changed since I took my counselling courses, we were taught to listen and speak gently, directly and quietly when it was 'our turn to talk'
I did my training at Hopwood Hall among other places linked to University of Manchester so maybe they have somewhere else that doesnt teach the person centred approach

cyfrifia Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:34 am

With the handwaving, thinking more of management and presentational skills. It must be stressful being under questioning about such serious matters in front of a TV camera.

Guest Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:09 am

Mojo Hill wrote:
Hinch wrote:http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/75399/child-sex-grooming-roger-ellis-evidence-contradicted-by-former-executive-director

I'm a bit confused as to why Cheryl Eastwood and Steve Garner were called, given the timeframes the committee has already been made aware of. I expected Terry Piggott and Steve Titcombe as next 'in the frame.'

This explains some of my (mis)understanding: Executive Director leaves Council - Rochdale Online 02.09.2009 http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news/29194/executive-director-leaves-council

‘Terry Piggott, 59, has been at the council for nine years, firstly as Director of Education and for the last five years as Executive Director of Children’s Services.

The Council says it has plans to appoint a new Director of Children’s Services to start early next year. Until then, the current Head of Children’s Social Care, Steve Titcombe will take on the role.

Mr Titcombe was due to retire in the autumn but is postponing his retirement until the end of the year, to cover the interim period before a successor for Mr Piggott is appointed.’

Any more nominations ?

24/11/12: Council workers face disciplinary action in wake of Rochdale child grooming scandal

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1594482_council-workers-face-disciplinary-action-in-wake-of-rochdale-child-grooming-scandal?rss=yes

‘Current and former social workers could be stripped of their right to practice by the professional regulator if serious misconduct or incompetence is uncovered.’

Surely this cant only be about the liability of social worker staff within RMBC ! Are all past Executive directors exonerated and other 'named' RMB departments-services excluded ? Shocked

This, like Coun Lambert's own statement to council last week, feels piecemeal and diversionary.

teamplayer2 Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:02 pm

Without starting a new subject on what is already a sad affair.

I see reported in the media that a takeaway food outlet has been shut in Milnrow as part of the investigations that are on going.

Is no part of the Rochdale area not being investigated in the alleged sexual crimes against vulnerable youngsters.

It just gets worse all the time and spreading through out the area.

cyfrifia Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:52 pm

Maybe it's not so much spreading as being exposed. The grooming and allied trades networks already spread far and wide,

Chill37 Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:40 pm

teamplayer2 wrote:Without starting a new subject on what is already a sad affair.

I see reported in the media that a takeaway food outlet has been shut in Milnrow as part of the investigations that are on going.

Is no part of the Rochdale area not being investigated in the alleged sexual crimes against vulnerable youngsters.

It just gets worse all the time and spreading through out the area.

It does indicate that this could be the case. Its getting very scary.

UP THE DALE Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:23 pm

Apart from the take away in Heywood, which is now under new ownership/management I understand, and the one in Milnrow, in which it's an individual being investigated, are there any other takeaways effected?

What areas of Rochdale MBC are affected, Heywood, Milnrow -case still being investigated. any others?

cyfrifia Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:14 pm

The northwest has had takeaway grooming for quite some years, Manchester to Blackpool and places between.

There was the groomer with a sock and foot fetish at the 'Family Guy' takeaway in Whitefield, Bury last year.

Blackpool is well known for takeaway grooming.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8433887/60-girls-groomed-for-sex-at-takeaway-shops-in-Blackpool.html

The takeaway grooming case in Blackburn at the 'Mi casa' in 2009.

The tale of grooming statistics in Greater Manchester 2011
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1425044_child-grooming-up-five-fold-in-ten-years-in-greater-manchester

Takeaway based grooming is well established, but whether it's spreading or not? Groomers might give it a rest for a while now, since the publicity? Smile

UP THE DALE Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:37 pm

Sadly grooming has been going on for decades if not centuries. Absolutely disgusting crime, as is the majority of abuse carried out by close family members or people very well known to the victim and or family of the victim. I just wish the media would highlight all forms of this sickening crime.

cyfrifia Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:43 pm

UP THE DALE wrote:the majority of abuse carried out by close family members or people very well known to the victim and or family of the victim.

The kind of grooming and rape we are talking about is nothing to do with "close family members or people very well known to the victim and or family of the victim"

What is your motive for your constant attempts to distract attention from very real problems UTD?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00yqfd4

UP THE DALE Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:26 pm

ALL rapes are EQUALLY disgusting. The crimes carried out by these disgusting "men" are appalling, but no worse than for example , the child raped by their uncle, or the crimes committed by priests on young girls or boys.

Rochdale grooming crimes ARE being investigated, and there are ongoing investigations happening right now into other grooming/sex crimes, so why not let the police investigate and bring to justice other disgusting sex monsters. Also up and down the country, maybe even in Rochdale, family members are being investigated for child abuse, what is YOUR motive for only being concerned about Rochdale grooming cases?

cyfrifia Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:28 pm

Rapes are not all "equally disgusting". Some are worse than others. You take your politically correct obsession with equality too far into la-la land.

As usual, you try to move the discussion away from it's subject, to personal bickering. Why do you do that?