Re: Anti-social Rochdale

cyfrifia Wed May 01, 2013 2:14 pm

Victims of human trafficking are being treated as slaves to cultivate cannabis farms in Bradford to pay off their debts after entering the country illegally.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10299031.Human_trafficking_victims_running_drug_farms/

It may be a different story with the Rochdale chicken farm, is it something to do with a community farming initiative?

teamplayer2 Wed May 01, 2013 6:19 pm

It may be a different story with the Rochdale chicken farm, is it something to do with a community farming initiative?

That is not a nice thing to say about the Town Hall and Councillors Cyfrifia. What a Face

Poppyanna555 Wed May 01, 2013 7:02 pm

I suspect the 'farming initiative' will relate to a curry dish!

Hinch Wed May 01, 2013 7:36 pm

They must be tandoori chickens then.

Guest Wed May 01, 2013 11:47 pm

cyfrifia wrote: * Victims of human trafficking are being treated as slaves to cultivate cannabis farms in Bradford to pay off their debts after entering the country illegally.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10299031.Human_trafficking_victims_running_drug_farms/

It may be a different story with the Rochdale chicken farm, is it something to do with a community farming initiative?

* which has ' Jack All ' Cyffi to do with the livestock roaming the Rochdale road(s mentioned. --- No one has ever alluded to a chicken farm and realistic familiarity with the terrain and dense urban housing zones round there may indicate some back-yard, or rear garden, 'Cooping' of the fowl.

------ The hens have, unfortunately, joined the garbage and litter problems that often blight that area, adding more environmental and health issues. The urban fox is no myth and ' Rat Runs ' are not merely a motoring term

Livestock owners, furthermore, have a duty of care to the fowl. ---- Main chicken infections in the UK are salmonella and campylobacter, which may also cause health problems for people.

Other important conditions are coccidiosis, Marek’s disease, infectious bursal disease (Gumboro disease), infectious bronchitis and lameness. -------- Some less common but important diseases from overseas are Newcastle disease ( fowl pest ) and avian influenza ( fowl plague ).

Should the Entwisle Road - Gower Street fowl enter, or have already entered, " the food chain " locally, in any way, I hope that ultimately, literally, those particular Chickens Come Home To Roost.

Poppyanna asked 'why has it not been dealt with?' I've no idea, but I'm fed up with the images and reality of man-made Grot conditions which closely approach Rochdale town centre ... that has already had a lot of money spent on the nearby Leisure Centre and 'new' council offices-café-library building.

Is this about blithe indifference by the Ward Councillors and RMBC Officers, or what ?

cyfrifia Thu May 02, 2013 12:16 am

There is a connection as both types of farming are associated with immigrant communities. Many asian immigrants have come from poor, rural farming areas, where people, birds and animals live closely together.

There is a fashionable 'food and futures' type movement for urban farming. In some places, Asian communities have been encouraged to re-create their mixed farming in city allotments, growing the vegetables and herbs that suit their diet, and keeping a few hens, ducks or goats. This gives people a theraputic and socially cohesive interest.

Whether R.M.B.C. are aware of and wish to encourage this trend towards urban community farming, or, whether they are oblivious to it, is, like so many things to do with R.M.B.C, an unknown. Smile

Atlas Thu May 02, 2013 12:46 am

Instead of 'moaning' have any of you reported the 'loose' fowl to the Environmental Health? Because until you do why would they bother taking any action? Having done so, if the 'problem' continues, you then have recourse to cause a 'ruckus' until something is done. Surprised

Poppyanna555 Thu May 02, 2013 10:48 am

You are right Atlas, and I have reported them to Environmental Health this morning. When I asked "had this been previously reported"? I was told that it had, and not just recently but over a period of weeks....glad to see then that they are 'on the ball'! Rolling Eyes

Hinch Thu May 02, 2013 1:20 pm

The animal welfare people should be heading for the area... protected by the TAU and India99, the GMP chopper.

Guest Thu May 02, 2013 4:17 pm

Atlas wrote:Instead of 'moaning' have any of you reported the 'loose' fowl to the Environmental Health? Because until you do why would they bother taking any action? Having done so, if the 'problem' continues, you then have recourse to cause a 'ruckus' until something is done.

Y E S ------- Atlas: The fowl were reported long before they appeared on this thread.

I'm also aware of reports made by a couple of area residents who work in the local primary education sector.

Mental mutters about ex-pats, mothers, sucking eggs ...

Guest Thu May 02, 2013 4:28 pm

Hinch wrote:The animal welfare people should be heading for the area... protected by the TAU and India99, the GMP chopper.

Sounds like it could become one of those famous local ' Partnership ' thingies, with increased presence " to reassure the community."

Sad

There could, of course, be a Ban on the press and public communications though.

teamplayer2 Thu May 02, 2013 9:17 pm

Admin should clamp down on the Fowl language being used on here. Razz

Atlas Fri May 03, 2013 12:11 am

I must admit we have 'fowl' of all descriptions roaming around here - but then we are in the middle of nowhere and such is considered normal - if not desirable. But on Entwistle Road!!! I think not. Nearly splattered a cock pheasant again on my way home tonight. Dozy buggers they are. All hormones and no nuts. tongue

Talking of nuts the squirrels are of the plague variety this year. Thousands of the little beggars. Thats what comes of killing off too many of the fox. Sad

Why don't we just leave things alone - with the exception of livestock amongst the traffic flow -. OOPS! Wink

Charly Fri May 03, 2013 8:09 am

I'm expecting the odd goat wandering along Entwisle Road next ... then who knows, we could see cows roaming soon

Hinch Fri May 03, 2013 8:51 am

Entwistle City Farm. It could be fab with publicly funded jobs galore. I was on the management committee of Heeley City Farm in Sheffield in the early 80's. We had 12 YOPs. (Youth Opportunity Scheme), a farm manager, assistant farm manager, council liaison officer, umpteen councillors, folk from the Manpower Services Commission etc.

We reared turkeys that must have cost £150 each in over-expensive feed, heated sheds, and unnecessary vets bills. There was money sloshing around all over the place. We were shipped all round the country on luxury coaches and put up in hotels on so called 'fact finding missions' to other farms and agri-colleges. It was great.

As well as the turkeys, we had sheep, geese, chickens, British Toggenburg goats, two horses, a donkey, tractors, Land Rover. It was a real gravy-train.

I'm sure Rochdale could be even more imaginative and in addition to the above could easily justify two or three community liaison officers, translators, facilitators, IT consulant etc with frequent visits to Bangladesh and Pakistan to study farming methods in the Third World.

I'm going to submit my application.

I see Heeley City Farm is still going 30-odd years later. http://www.heeleyfarm.org.uk/.

cyfrifia Fri May 03, 2013 11:10 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=reOmevk5DqU

Poppyanna555 Fri May 03, 2013 12:06 pm

Well, I have just had a return phone call from a gentleman at RMBC's Environmental Health Department. This gentleman told me that they are looking into the problem of the stray hens on Entwistle Road but that it is a 'difficult one'!

He went on to explain that there is no local legislation to deal with stray hens and herein lies the problem. He compared it with that of the stray dog where there is the appropriate legislation in place making it easier to deal with the problem appropriately.

To be honest, this conversation has left me quite baffled. How can it be difficult to knock on the blessed door and ask that they keep the chickens 'walkabouts' restricted to a penned off area outside their own property?

Oh, and the hens are not crossing the road to get to the other side as this gentleman informed me, because these hens belong to a separate household on the opposite side of the road. Laughing

.

cyfrifia Fri May 03, 2013 12:37 pm

Poppyanna555 wrote:Well, I have just had a return phone call from a gentleman at RMBC's Environmental Health Department.

He went on to explain that there is no local legislation to deal with stray hens and herein lies the problem.

That seems a clear declaration from the authorities that anyone in Rochdale can keep hens and let them run free. There is a charitable organisation that re-homes battery hens http://www.bhwt.org.uk/. Perhaps Rochdale town could become a haven for hens?

Hinch Fri May 03, 2013 2:21 pm

Poppyanna555 wrote:Well, I have just had a return phone call from a gentleman at RMBC's Environmental Health Department. This gentleman told me that they are looking into the problem of the stray hens on Entwistle Road but that it is a 'difficult one'!

He went on to explain that there is no local legislation to deal with stray hens and herein lies the problem. He compared it with that of the stray dog where there is the appropriate legislation in place making it easier to deal with the problem appropriately.

To be honest, this conversation has left me quite baffled. How can it be difficult to knock on the blessed door and ask that they keep the chickens 'walkabouts' restricted to a penned off area outside their own property?

Oh, and the hens are not crossing the road to get to the other side as this gentleman informed me, because these hens belong to a separate household on the opposite side of the road.

Makes me laugh this one. I think we all know what 'difficult' means don't we?

When I lived near Broad Lane, I rented a council-owned allotment where I was specifically not allowed to keep animals or poultry because of possible noise pollution. The houses were 50 yards away.

However, it seems that in more 'difficult' areas where the houses are a matter of six feet away, you can keep them in your yard, cellar etc and bugger the consequences.

cyfrifia Fri May 03, 2013 3:43 pm

The old consumer society and ways of going on is changing. People want and need to be more self sufficient. The 'difficult' people you mention, with an existing tradition of small scale, household type farming may be the way for the future. Might be better if everyone who wants to, follows suit and keeps a few chickens and maybe a goat or two? I understand the difficulty of houses being close together, but if people are used to living in overcrowded conditions with chickens scratching around, and are happier that way, perhaps the long term solution is to dedicate scraps of land to urban farming rather than prohibit keeping chickens.

Hinch Fri May 03, 2013 4:02 pm

I quite agree Cyfrifia. Poultry does make an awful lot of noise from pre-dawn onwards. Identifying suitable urban land, screening with trees etc seems to be a way of addressing these 'difficultes'. Hopefully, all residents would have an equal chance to apply, not just the 'difficult' ones.

The word 'difficult' brings back memories. As long ago as the mid-60's it was in common usage. We had neighbours who were basically running a garment factory in the house next door in a residential terraced house with industrial sewing machines going 24/7. We had no sleep for months.

My mum got Cyril Smith involved. He was quite keen to take the issue up until he discovered that the people were Asian. "We need to be careful here," the Great Man said. "There could be 'difficulties'."

He was off like sh*t off a shovel.

The tiptoeing round uncomfortable issues has a long history in Rochdale.

cyfrifia Fri May 03, 2013 4:26 pm

Difficult. Cool

If what the Environmental Health told Poppy, that there is no legislation against, no rules against, keeping free range chickens in Rochdale, is right, anyone who wants to, can.

However, in light of the deadly mutant bird flu supposed to be coming from China, it might be time to rethink local bye laws?

cyfrifia Fri May 03, 2013 5:24 pm

Hinch wrote:

The tiptoeing round uncomfortable issues has a long history in Rochdale.

Yes, many of us are painfully aware of the problem you outline above, Hinch, and it's effects. It is such a long term, widespread and embedded thing, it's difficult to know what, if anything can be done about it now. Smile

Hinch Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 pm

The problem lies close to the heart of local politics. This can only get worse and I fail to see how it can ever improve given the dynamics.

Sadly, not all problems have a solution. The issues are deep rooted and the mindset entrenched.

We move further away from real democracy with every local election. All very depressing. Issues recognised and well-known but no way of addressing them. Attending the count is very instructive. Never mind looking at the ballot slips, study the body language and the huddles.

Guest Fri May 03, 2013 11:38 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Difficult.

If what the Environmental Health told Poppy, that there is no legislation against, no rules against, keeping free range chickens in Rochdale, is right, anyone who wants to, can.

However, in light of the deadly mutant bird flu supposed to be coming from China, it might be time to rethink local bye laws?

You absolutely can not be familiar with the neighbourhood in question Cyffi. This is not about free range chickens in Rochdale borough. ------ It's about meandering, scratting livestock cooped in a neighbourhood that has no allotments, which has had received several phases of very expensive Regeneration to improve its facilities and private housing stock, along with Housing Market Renewal schemes.

This is barely a chicken run's distance from Rochdale town centre that is having many more Millions of public money spent on it. You cant justifiably compare the nature and needs of this town centre with your own more-rural Todmorden's veggie-growing project(s.

There are rules about keeping livestock in the borough and you're correct in referring to local bye laws. There is any easy political solution: the Local Authority has powers to make bye laws to protect our environment from spoiling and misuse, which can also apply to public walkways, open spaces, pleasure grounds, etcetera.

One difficulty is probably in expecting the LA to proportionately and sensibly review and enact a bye law to remove what is likely to be a Health & Safety and Environmental issue.

Charly wrote:I'm expecting the odd goat wandering along Entwisle Road next ...

You calling me an odd goat now ?

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